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Are miniature painting and wargaming the same hobby?

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  • Are miniature painting and wargaming the same hobby?

    The last few years have seen a marked increase in the awareness of miniature painting mainly at the hand of the internet and sites such as coolminiornot.
    In years gone by painting minis was often seen by many as a necessay evil that got in the way of the actual gaming.
    Nowasays though more and more people will tell you they are painters not gamers and there are many companies out there producing miniatures without a gaming system.
    Do you think miniature painting has become its own seperate entity now. could it survive without wargaming.
    Many apportion Rackhams demise in large due to there insistence in launching pre painted minis.
    any thoughts?
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  • #2
    way different, but I'm not sure you would have as many companies and selection without wargaming.

    I've been playing a lot of Malifaux lately and just started testing the second book. I forgot what its like to go to a hobby store and play pick up games against people. Wierd set of group we are that paint and play with little people aren't we? ...Gaming is fun, but I def. prefer painting in my home than playing at some shop. ALthough Malifaux is pretty awesome, and challenges the mind a bit, so I like that part of it a lot.

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    • #3
      Wow what a really great question.

      I don't think my opinion is mature enough, but I can see more and more painters, art collectors and patrons of this particular niche continuing to get involved. Slowly of course! Where that leads exactly... I am unsure.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by poots

        I don't think my opinion is mature enough
        i dont see why not - you game and paint and even have your own miniature/gaming company.

        Anyway everyones opinion counts here - all are as valid as anyone elses!
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        • #5
          I say that because that is how I feel. Until very recently I have only approached the whole painting / gaming scope as a hobbyist. Also the whole tabletop gaming marketing is very under developed compared to many other hobbies. Golfing, boating, video gaming... these larger hobbies have had TONS of money poured into them to help overall define what the hobby is and what the experience should be for the people that enjoy it.

          Miniatures... not so much! I would imagine ( don't know for sure ) that GW is the largest and most commercial entity in the space. Their marketing is all about buying and enjoying their products. With a lot less emphasis on the hobby and all the little pieces that make up the hobby.

          Personally I am more of a builder / painter then a gamer.
          The games just take SO long. -_-
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          • #6
            Yes I thinkthey're seperate hobbies, and no WAY could mini painting flourish without the games 99% og the mini's are intended for.
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            • #7
              Interestingly, I have exactly the opposite opinion to Scott, for the same reason, i.e., I don't think they're entirely separate hobbies, because mini painting would be a lost world without wargames and wargames wouldn't look nearly as much fun without painted minis! :D

              The two hobbies seem to have been closely related to each other for many years now, and I think both hobbies benefit from their symbiotic relationship :)
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Keeper
                Interestingly, I have exactly the opposite opinion to Scott, for the same reason, i.e., I don't think they're entirely separate hobbies, because mini painting would be a lost world without wargames and wargames wouldn't look nearly as much fun without painted minis! :D

                The two hobbies seem to have been closely related to each other for many years now, and I think both hobbies benefit from their symbiotic relationship :)
                I agree that the hobbies are related, but I think they have to be considered different.

                The painting/modelling etc. is a means to get the pieces onto the field, from a gamer perspective I think. It involves all sort fo skills that don't pertain to the actual gaming hobby.

                Because of the complete different set of skills, materials, and just abotu everything I would have to call them seperate. Symbiotic is a good word, they rely on each other but I think still seperate.
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                • #9
                  They can be one and the same but once you reach a certain point painting then branches off and becomes its own. I suppose there are also people that just start painting and never do play the games but they are the exception to the rule I think.

                  I know I wouldn't paint minis if it weren't for the games and the satisfaction I get at fielding a fully painted army.

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                  • #10
                    I'd say not the same but interdependant.
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                    • #11
                      I don't think they're seperate, its just a different use for the minaiutes once painted. I game with mine, others place them on a shelf or sell them to some one who games with them.

                      I use all the same materials and skills used by painters when I paint my minis, the difference is the talent. I paint a reasoanble standard, where as someone who is solely a painter will probably paint to a much higher standard. I use the same techniques, though I may not have grasped all of them yet, but they are the same techniques.

                      I'm happy if I improve in regards to painting and I like to have a nicely painted army, whereas a lot of painters strive to be better.

                      Would the painting side exist without gaming, probably but not in the same context, or size. There would still be large scale model figures to paint, mostly military in subject, you wouldn't probably have the small scale minis, or the abundance and variety that are avaliable to both painter and gamers currently.

                      Also painters would proably get classed as modellers, as in figure modellers, LOL.

                      Painting is part and parcel of the gaming hobby, its just that we have a different use for the mini once its painted.
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                      • #12
                        Yeah, I reckon they're related. I would imagine someone who games (I don't, so I have to imagine... ) would want their figures to look good and the way he/she'd wants them to. I don't know what the percentage of people who buy figures to game with is to the people who buy them just to paint, but I would imagine the people who game with them is higher...and paint them up because they see other painted-up figures on the table. So it all sort of ties together.

                        As for Rackham's pre-painted figures...I cannot believe what a complete f*ck up they made of themselves when they went plastic. Their metal figures were, IMHO, the most imaginative and best looking around, and the paintwork by the studio team was second to none. I used to really look forwards to getting Cry Havok just to see what they were doing, but even that stopped when Rackham cancelled the mag. The pre-painted figures for their future war game look great on the web site, but what you saw on the site wasn't anywhere near the standard of what you got in the box and I thought they looked pretty brutal IRL-so no wonder people weren't fighting each other to get them! Sure, you could try and strip them and paint them yourself, but the ones I've seen looked so crappily made that I'd be worried in case I damaged some of the detail, especially after spending all that money on them.

                        Personally, I think what Rackham did to themselves is a guide for any figure company of what NOT to do!

                        It's a shame, really, because they WERE good-I thought so, anyway... :cry:
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                        • #13
                          I think they are related but not mutually dependent.

                          I do think that gamers have different requirements and sometimes different philosophies than pure painters (issues of scale, compatibility etc matter if you are fighting with little soldiers not just popping them on a shelf). But then I don't game so I cannot speak for gamers, simply comment on what I observe. I never understand issues with scale..its just not an issue for me in any way at all.

                          Painters also exist in an area of the hobby where gaming is not as common...larger scales, military etc. That side of the hobby would exist without gaming, but a lot of people probably join through wargaming etc.

                          Great post on Rackham Lost Boy. :) I think they went to pre paints to try and be about gaming not minis, but it was a very sad thing to do..the pre paints just don't have the 'WOW I NEED THAT!' factor, for me anyway. I actually rather like the Rackham books (have the Cadwallon ones) as the art in them is so nice. But I doubt I'd play the games..though reading them they are the ones I would most want to try.

                          I think the key to mass mini making is mostly gaming, the key to one off mini making boutiques is to appeal to painters. Successful small companies try a bit of both.

                          I think painting / modelling would survive without gaming, just in a different way.

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                          • #14
                            I suppose I meant the high end miniature painting (display painting) obviously tabletop stuff is as much about wargaming as anything. I suppose its a little like architecture can become more than just a building
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lost Boy
                              Personally, I think what Rackham did to themselves is a guide for any figure company of what NOT to do!

                              It's a shame, really, because they WERE good-I thought so, anyway... :cry:
                              Rackham Metal figures were fantastic and it was a very sad day for me when the swapped to Pre painted plastic completely.

                              But when it comes down to it I'd rather MORE companies go the non-collectible pre painted route. Separate the two hobbies a bit. I don't need figures that I'm playing a game with to look fantastic. They need to look good from 3+ feet away and I think all of the AT-43 and AoR fit that bill quite nicely. I don't want to spend 20 hours painting up a unit to play with. I want to spend those 20 hours making one figure look fantastic and put him in my display case. Plus the painting techniques to get a massive unit painted and looking good from 3+ feet away do NOT translate well to trying to do the high end stuff on one figure.

                              I pretty well despise Warhammer and 40k (the aesthetics just aren't there for me) but if GW did Pre-painted plastics? I'd have to seriously re-consider my avoidance. As for Confrontation it started dieing when they released unbalanced armies and confusing rules. I'd love to play with my pre-painted Templar horde but the game just isn't fun anymore
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